Ohkaya Interview and Rock Updates
Jason Ziolo
All right, everybody, welcome to season two, episode seven of Rock Fan Radio. Super excited to be here. Today is the 24th of March. I have Parker with me. I've got Chris with me. I've got AJ with me, the usual host. And we also have John Terry, AKA JT, of OKAYA, AJ and John being of OKAYA. Today's format, we're going to talk about current events like we always do. And then we're going to spend a deep dive into OKAYA.
learn a little bit about how they formed, what they've been up to, and what the future looks like for them. I'm pretty excited about it. So, awesome. What does everybody have? Any current events you want to talk about today?
AJ
I've got one that popped up just 10 minutes ago and I'm curious if you guys have even seen it. Otherwise we can move on. There's this cover of Breath put out by a girl. I think she goes by the name Mafra. Have you guys seen it? And did you know that it just went to number one on billboard out of knocking out Motionless in White as of today?
Jason Ziolo
I did
not know breath. Are you talking about breaking Benjamin breath?
AJ
No, did I say breath? ⁓ my bad. Doomed. Doomed by Bring Me is covered by this girl named Mafra. And if you guys haven't even seen it then you definitely need to watch it first. But it just went to number one on billboard.
John
Yeah.
Jason Ziolo
You did
it.
by bringing
John
Bring me the horizon.
Jason Ziolo
No kidding, what's the name of this artist?
Chris
So what kind of artist is Mavra? Like, does she do a totally different take on it or what?
AJ
It's insane. It kind of pays homage to really rough vocals like a Courtney LaPlante. And John and I have talked about it, but I'm really just curious to hear what you guys think of it if you haven't heard it. I don't know if you can play that kind of stuff on these streams, Jason, but... ⁓
Jason Ziolo
You know, we've been trying like over
and over to do these streams to play it over and I've never quite figured it out, but we'll try it again. mean, you spelled its artist name for me.
AJ
Yeah, she, I,
yeah, M-A-P-H-R-A? I'm almost.
Jason Ziolo
NAFTA,
N-A-P-H-T-A, no, NAFTA is a volatile, highly flammable liquid hydrocarbon mixture.
Chris
Yeah, you can find it on YouTube, Jason.
AJ
No, no, M-A-P-H-R-A.
Jason Ziolo
NAPH, I cannot.
Mafra, okay, I found her. It's a woman
AJ
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and yeah, I guess the whole thing is because she uploaded it independently to Spotify. That's what made it chart eligible versus just having to cover on YouTube. ⁓ my goodness. It's already at five and a half million streams. Wow.
Jason Ziolo
Okay.
Let's hear it. Let's see if I can get it to pipe through here. Let's see. ⁓ I'm shearing. I'm so terrible at this stuff, but let me figure it out. Stop sharing. Let's share. Share the screen. Let's also share the audio. There's where I messed it up. OK, cool. There it is. Now you guys can see it. ⁓ Mafra playing Doomed. Doomed is Bring Me the Horizons Closer, typically, isn't it? Or is that Throne? Never mind. Same album.
AJ
Yeah.
That's thrown,
but they do doomed in a lot of their sets now.
Jason Ziolo
See if I can get it going here. Can you guys hear that?
Sounds pretty much like Bring Me the Horizon.
AJ
Mm-hmm.
Jason Ziolo
Sounds pretty rad, sounds pretty original to the, or pretty similar to the original version too.
AJ
what
I'm saying. Yeah, it's very close. The whole thing, if you go to the comment section, there's literally like a divide. Some people are like, this is the best thing I've ever heard. And some are kind of just, I wouldn't even say trashing it, but saying that it's just like overdone. I literally, even when I showed John it, I was like, I don't know what you guys think of this. Because like when we did the cover of Breath, I have a different singing style. And know many types of singers have like unique singing
that some people like and don't like, but when I saw it go number one, I literally just had to be like, well, there's no way it's not good. Because I didn't hear the Spotify version. I don't know if that's different than what I heard on YouTube, but it just blew me away because of how I don't think I've ever seen a cover from an independent artist go number one on the Billboard. Ever. Like, I don't know if that's a thing. So I just, yeah, if you guys listen to it, have any thoughts, I thought it was just the coolest. Yeah.
Parker
Thank
Jason Ziolo
That is pretty cool. I'm into that. I will definitely
listen to that a little bit more. But you said it's number one on Billboard?
AJ
I could be wrong because I just, I'm spewing out a state of the scene podcast. They've got a Facebook page and they...
Jason Ziolo
That's exactly,
they're pretty cool. They're a pretty cool rock news kind of thing. they have, it looks like here, let's see if I can find them.
AJ
Yeah.
They just posted about it, that's why you'd probably see it.
Jason Ziolo
Yeah, and Naff is bringing a shot
to the top of Billboard's Hot Hard Rock Songs chart. So it's a hot hard rock song, say it close enough, right? Overtaking, emotionless, sleep token, and bad omens. Sounds cool, I can't wait to listen to this.
AJ
Yeah.
Jason Ziolo
Have you guys, I got one for you guys. Have you seen these guys yet? I am not sure how I feel about this whole thing. And I know Chris and I have been talking about it and he's shaking his head and going, what the hell are these guys? Parker's shaking, said, AJ and John, have you heard these guys yet?
John
yeah, I know you're gonna ring up.
Chris
No.
You
AJ
What?
Chris
⁓
John
I have, yes. I actually, I think it's cool personally. ⁓ Usually this stuff is like the gimmick, just I'm over it before I even listen to it, but I think it's cool enough to where they're doing something unique and obviously going extremely overboard ⁓ for its own sake, but yeah, you just have to listen.
AJ
What?
Parker
Yeah
Jason Ziolo
So for the people who listening and can't see, I pulled up the now viral video of the band. I'm going to blow this. They're from Canada. They're French Canadian from Quebec. And the name is a Quebec name. ⁓ In English, it looks like Angiom de Poitrine. But it's pronounced. I'm going to totally blunder this. Angine de Poitrine. It's fun to say. Angine de Poitrine.
It means angina pectoris. You know what that means? Chest pain. So this band is called chest pain that is going viral. So I'm going to refer to them as chest pain. And they claim they are space-time voyagers from planet Earth's rock deities, whatever the hell that means. They came to Earth and they're fascinated by three things. This is honestly in their bio.
Chris
Okay.
Jason Ziolo
They're fascinated by three things that has kept them on Earth. Well, the first one is going to be ⁓ rock music, which is pretty obvious. ⁓ Pyramids, which the lead singer has a papier-mache pyramid on their head. There really is no singer. It's just an instrumental band. It's a guitar player who plays a double neck guitar that is guitar and bass. And of course, the third thing they stay around for Earth for because they're so...
so interested in is hot dogs. So, rock music pyramids and hot dogs are why they're here. They don't talk when they get interviewed. I saw an interview with them and they basically just make rumbling and crazy noises and they describe themselves as brothers. And for those of you who might not have seen this or don't know who I'm talking about, you can see it on the screen right now, but it's okay if you can't. It's basically a guitar player with a giant nose, almost like Clockwork Orange style.
a pyramid on their head decked out in all polka dots. And then the drummer's got this huge helmet on and a giant nose hanging down that wiggles back and forth and cover up his drum set in a towel or a blanket. And it's all polka dots everywhere. And I can't get away from these guys. They're everywhere all over my social media feed.
Chris
Thank
Parker
They are everywhere. And it's ironic that it means chest pain, because that's what this gives me. Honestly. To some degree.
Jason Ziolo
Hahaha!
AJ
This is my first
time hearing about them.
Chris
I was gonna say head pain,
but yeah, I'm with you Parker.
Parker
I mean...
It is a gimmick through and through, but sometimes... Well, let me finish. It's a gimmick in the stance that they're doing this for viral content, right? I mean, that's how you have to make it these days, for the most part, but... The music doesn't suck. The music... Right.
Jason Ziolo
I don't think so. I'm not sure. I'm not convinced it's a gimmick.
Chris
It's not a gimmick.
Jason Ziolo
So that's actually, I agree, I mean, that is why they're making it. But they actually
started out because they are in another band and they got booked in the same venue twice in a week. And they said, no one's gonna come see us a second time. And so we're going to make a new band with this persona that they're from outer space and call themselves Chess Pants.
Parker
Okay.
And I mean, they're not bad, right? It's interesting. ⁓ The music itself is kind of interesting. It's funny they like hot dogs because their noses look like hot dogs. ⁓ It's just like, it's weird. Jason, you like weirds, so of course you like them. But ⁓ in reality, they're very talented. They're doing a loop style thing, kind ⁓ of like Ed Sheeran does, right? Live, or is it Ed Sheeran that does it?
Jason Ziolo
Hahaha
They are very heavily
loop pedal influenced, which is cool stuff.
Parker
Yeah,
it is. So like they're talented, but it's it's clearly a gimmick from the standpoint of ⁓ viral content, right? And and the whole not talking during the interview, that kind of stuff. I don't know. It gets to me sometimes. But but the music itself is interesting, to say the least.
AJ
What the
Jason Ziolo
I like how
the drummer's nose wags back and forth while he's playing. There he is. Look at him. And if you look at him here, the guitar player is playing what's called a semi-tone or a half-tone guitar. So I'm going to play it real quick here. You can get a feel for what it sounds like. It sounds a little noisy.
Chris
Ha ha ha ha.
Jason Ziolo
So they're playing semi tones or half tones, which
Chris
You know Jason,
I mean...
Jason Ziolo
Chris, were you gonna say something?
Chris
Yeah, sorry, Jason, you
were cutting in and out there. Can you hear me okay? Yeah, so, I mean, the music's not bad, but it's like, you other than like the rest of this year, like, are you gonna go see this band live next year? Are you gonna buy their album, or I shouldn't say buy their album, are you gonna actually listen to their full-length album, you know, whenever they release one? It's kind of like a, you know.
Jason Ziolo
I can hear you okay.
Chris
Flavor of the week kind of like an interesting story, but it's just I don't know I'm cool with it, but
Parker
Jason might be the wrong person to ask that to because he loves the new Avenged Seven Fold album which is... Sculpting Earth as well.
Jason Ziolo
So, not there.
I do love the new investment, which is a little
noisy. I will not go see them next year, Chris, but I would absolutely go see them three months from now, because they're like the top of they're top of every's mind and I want to see what it's all about. I actually, had a couple beers on, I believe it was Saturday night and I put my headphones on and I listened to this thing, beers. And I was totally into it. It sucked me in.
And it's the semi, so when I say semi-tones, and regular guitar, let's say, has 24 frets, and each fret has a certain division in between each of them for the notes, it's physics, but what makes the notes? Well, a semi-tone or a half-tone guitar actually takes those frets and divides them in half. So 24 frets now becomes 48 frets, and they can hit these half notes that are not quite, I mean, they're not sharps and flats, they're half tones.
And so when it creates a lot of dissonance in the music and it's different. They're not the first to do it. King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard, another band I really like, go see them. Had a whole album where they did this too. I actually didn't listen to it, but it's on my list of stuff to go check out.
Parker
It definitely creates an interesting vibe, environment. I do like the semi tones just cause like I like bends and weird shit anyway. So, you know, the music itself, pretty interesting.
AJ
That was interesting.
Jason Ziolo
I think so.
And Chris mentioned they did release an album. They released an album a couple years ago. And it's going on Discogs, the vinyl store, for $300 to $500 because it's super rare and everybody wants it. The new album comes out in a week and a half, April 3. And I guess they only ran a print of something like a $500 or $1,000, and it sold out absolutely instantly.
Chris
Wow.
Parker
And you can't hate on bands for finding success in weird spots, right?
Chris
Man, you better sell that shit
now, guys.
Jason Ziolo
I agree.
AJ
Hahahaha
Chris
So that should now, it's not gonna be worth half that in four months.
Jason Ziolo
I agree, I agree. But let's be honest, if they said they're coming to town, I'd be like, yeah, I think I'm going. So that'd be fun.
Chris
Yeah,
AJ
You said they're from...
Chris
yeah, if they were coming to town in like the next couple of months right there with you Jason
Jason Ziolo
All right, cool. They're from Quebec. They're from Sa... I don't know how to pronounce this. Sa-guenay, Quebec. Which is why I'm guessing that Angine de Poitrine is French.
AJ
They're from Canada, right?
Parker
Yeah, it's pretty French Canadian, I think, from where they're at.
Jason Ziolo
their new song, there's actually a point where they're like, and then they wave their hands. And I can't help but giggle every time I see it.
Parker
Yes, I saw that.
I feel like every single time I open up Instagram or any social to go update anything, I see them on the feed somewhere and they're just everywhere. It's just a viral sensation right now. We'll see if it holds, but you know, don't hate bands that find success in interesting places, right? mean, games is game, Like that's what you want. You want to blow up somehow, right?
Jason Ziolo
It's pretty fun. I saw someone call them the rage against AI band. is, AI could never do this. And they're right. It's completely original and different.
Parker
wha- i- that's-
i feel like ai could- that's exa- what they're doing is exactly what ai would come up with if i just typed in make me a song that could go viral that's exactly what i would think would come out
AJ
Yeah.
Jason Ziolo
Yeah.
Chris
100%.
AJ
Speaking of current events, did you see that with AI? I didn't read it, so again, I'm just speaking out of my butt with headlines. some guy stole like 8 million in revenue from Spotify because he had AI music with AI listeners. That's insane. That's crazy. And I also saw some... Yeah, I saw somewhere else too that ⁓ I think someone said a quarter of all the music, like 25 % of all music uploaded to Spotify now is AI.
Jason Ziolo
I didn't come up with it first.
Chris
wow.
AJ
That's that's crazy, and it's funny Parker by the way congrats on getting to all the platforms I saw you put that out. We should totally chat about that, but ⁓ for like John and I if you guys care to take a an artist's opinion it like and we don't really actually see or like do the numbers ourselves But when you because of how it all works with stream share it actually does become a worry at a certain point because it brings down the cent per stream because it saturates the
Parker
Thank you, thank you.
AJ
Streamshares how artists get paid through Spotify and stuff and so if there's more artists putting out more stuff that ends up on Discovery or whatever that people end up having to listen to and it's AI it's crazy so artists actually do take a hit. So that was just wild that I saw that today.
Jason Ziolo
We're going to have an AI
episode soon. And I saw Evan J. Thomas, our guest last episode, actually just released his new version of Sound Fury Magazine. And the lead story is about AI's impact on the music industry. And I actually kind of agreed with where he was coming from. I've always said it's a tool. And I mean, just like a cord wheel is a tool, or just like a distortion pedal is a tool, or a thesaurus is a tool.
AJ
Mm-hmm.
Jason Ziolo
For songwriters, I think it's a tool on steroids. It gets a little dicey when we start talking about generative AI and faking real arts, but as an artist, I can see it being completely invaluable and I'll die on that hill. But that now is not the time. Who else is something else? Parker, you had some albums to review, right?
AJ
Yeah.
You
Chris
You know guys,
it's interesting.
Jason Ziolo
Go ahead, Chris.
Chris
Actually, sorry, there's a huge delay on my side, so I don't know if you guys hear it on your side, but AJ, it's interesting you bring up streams and all that on Spotify. So there's a recent trend, at least it's recent to me, I don't know how long it's been going on, where bands are not just releasing their album, they're also tacking on an extra B-side or two to the digital download only as a way to drive.
You know streams and sales and ultimately try to chart so I know Liam Mcgod just did this I guess whenever their album was released a couple weeks ago Black Label Society is doing it again this week where they'll have you know a digital download that you buy between now and Thursday night and then the album will go live on Friday But yeah, it's it's artificially
you know, done to drive sales there. So I'm just curious, I mean, do we see this as the new trend? Are we now going to start buying stuff, you know, as music consumers? Are you going to buy stuff, you know, if, mean, for, you know, Jason, for example, Bring Me the Horizon, if their new album has two exclusive, you know, kind of B-sides, are you going go and download that digitally? Or are you just going listen to the regular version on Spotify and just, you know, who cares about the B-sides?
Jason Ziolo
It's sad to say, I'm just gonna listen to the regular version on Spotify. You know, my, I don't wanna say gift to the artist, but I'll say it. My gift to the artist is I typically buy their vinyl. I got tons of vinyl in the basement. I shelve it and usually never listen to it. Through the vinyl, I'll listen to it because it'll listen to it on Spotify, but vinyl's like a certain mindset that I'm not always in to pull out. So no.
AJ
You
Jason Ziolo
If that's putting out extra songs on vinyl, putting on digital, it's too inconvenient for me. And if I'm gonna buy something, it's certainly not gonna be a digital thing.
John
Yeah, if there is a way to integrate it with streaming platforms, like if you could buy something off of bands website, that's a digital download and then have it unlocked somehow within Spotify or your app of choice. mean, that would be great, but you know, yeah.
Jason Ziolo
My two cents.
AJ
That would be cool, actually. That's a great idea.
Jason Ziolo
Don't think, Spotify has a feature to like, if you download the song, you can link it in Spotify and run local songs. Cause I know like, 12 Angry Months by Local H came out and it's no longer on Spotify, but it's on Apple Music, it's pissing me off. But 12 Angry Months isn't on Spotify, but I can literally, since I have it, I have the mp3s, I can link it up, but I'm never gonna do that. Not for all these different albums.
AJ
Yeah, there was a whole thing, Joe, Joe actually found out about this before me, but Taylor Swift, I don't know the details, so I'm not gonna try to act like I do, but... Oh, is that, well, I was just gonna say she did that, almost specific to what Chris was saying, where there was like a whole release strategy around...
Jason Ziolo
Reed's not here to talk about Taylor Swift, so you're on dead ears here.
Parker
Thank
Chris
Ha
ha ha.
AJ
don't know the details, the way Jo made it sound is that she would put out one version of a song that wasn't the official, but if you bought that, then that got access to eight other versions, like an acoustic, an acapella, whatever, but with the original song. So it was kind of a way to just drive up the actual cost of the song, but you're putting it with other versions of the song. it seems like you should be paying more. So Jo was telling me a lot of Taylor Swift fans were having a
really like hard time grasping that she did that. So yeah, just another thing.
Jason Ziolo
Well, she's known for putting out like 20 copies
Chris
Well, in.
Jason Ziolo
of the same album too, to drive the collectors to buy 20 versions, which is bullshit too.
AJ
Yep. Yeah.
Chris
Yeah.
Yeah. The other thing I forgot to mention was the way it works, and I had to look at my notes over here, 10 digital downloads is equivalent to 1500 digital streams. So if you can get 10 of your fans, obviously they're going to pay money for it as well. But those 10 purchases, again, 1500 digital streams there. So again, it definitely drives
The first week sales which is what it's all about. So until they I guess they change the formula I feel like this is gonna just continue to happen and happen and then to JT's point I mean, this is probably gonna, you know continue to evolve over time. I mean, that's a great idea that you had there. So
Jason Ziolo
What do you guys do in an al-qaeda around this? Have you thought about it at all? I know you have a digital release strategy. I know you release a lot of stuff online. I some of your songs have a million plus views. How are you doing this? Give us a little of your strategy.
AJ
Well, I'll just say we're not...
We don't shy away from our rollout and how we put out the songs because there is a strategy, like Chris had said, and everyone, I think, should do it, of trying to get as many streams as possible on a release. So what happens, and it's funny, I just saw some other podcasts and news outlet just talking about this, but you put out a song, say you're brand new, you put out a song, and then the next song that you put out, you put out that song plus the new song, but you put
it
in the same release on all the streaming platforms so when it plays the next song you get that extra stream that's all we really do I would say in terms of like the the rollout that that would be I guess similar to something of like just trying to make sure we're streams you know on everything but there's I mean Johnny you want to talk about our actual like plan of how we're stuff out
John
Yeah, I mean, we're not doing anything necessarily different, down the line, we would love to do vinyls for people. ⁓
AJ
Yeah, we
Jason Ziolo
the
AJ
are.
Jason Ziolo
hold on hold on the plural of vinyl is vinyl that's a famous record record collector saying like the I've seen shared stickers and I had to correct you I'm that tick-hat I'm sorry Jen ⁓ go ahead dog sorry
John
Gotcha.
My know.
Chris
Ha
John
Deer, deer and deers. No, you're a deer.
AJ
You
Parker
Ha ha.
Chris
Yeah, deer and deers, yeah. Fish and fishes.
John
Yeah, so I mean, we don't really have a like strategy necessarily. We love doing acoustic versions of songs. So, you know, we always think about maybe doing like a deluxe version of an album release or something down the road where we could give an extra five or six songs. But yeah, it's really interesting with like what Chris was saying about. In what way can we offer the most value to people and still feel like we have
even more of a connection besides the streaming, know, what percentage of people will download an MP3, but then it's like, how are you going to listen to that? You know, the ease of access. we were trying to balance offering cool stuff to people while also just letting everybody listen anywhere that they possibly can, whether that's YouTube Bandcamp, you know, or anything like that, or even SoundCloud. yeah, I mean, we're just right now in the phase of doing
a lot of single rollouts, mainly for the attention span of people. Cause you know, at the stage that we're at, know, releasing 10 songs all at once. I don't think, you know, anybody besides the top 5 % of your super fans are really going to give it the time of day, which is unfortunate. So we've tried to have to do this hybrid approach of writing kind of as we go and then releasing and, and water falling that into an album, which is what AJ was saying about.
releasing songs and then having them stack into each other. And that's more just because of the attention economy with everything. Yeah.
Jason Ziolo
It's, I remember reading an interview with our favorite person. It's one of our favorite people to talk about, Radke. And Radke said the same thing. He said, I mean, his recent album that came out was a culmination, I don't know, I'm guesstimating here, but it's gotta be a culmination of like the past four years of music of them dripping out song by song. And I know he came out and he said, look, we can...
go into a hole for a year and write 10 songs, or we can spend two months on a song and make it absolutely perfect in no hurry, push it out, and then at end of the day, we just collect them all under an umbrella of an album and release the album.
AJ
Yeah, that's...
John
Yeah, and
you'll even see bands like Bad Omens that are on the road right now and they've dropped what, like three new singles? And they're playing shows off of that and integrating that into their set list. So everything is just, even with the news in general, it's like next day updates with stuff. like, you know, so it's interesting to think about that of traditionally, you know, looking back at your favorite records or like eras for bands. Like I think back to like, you know, events, some pulled the city of evil or just even like
Jason Ziolo
Yep.
AJ
Yeah.
John
huge albums like Riot from Paramore it's like that was its own thing that you can point to and now it's just a littering of different singles and it just seems so fast-paced that it's a you know
AJ
Yeah, John.
John and I and it's funny you asked this now Jason just because we're in like a limbo period right here where we are wrapping up this first album Era like John's saying but we do we've had a lot of talks. We want to have the integrity that comes with an album of just having that, you know that piece of a collection but I think we're gonna kind of just stick with the same process even for the next album, so Just to I can already say, you know, we're drop another single or two and then when we drop our
album, it's, you know, we're maybe looking at two or three unreleased songs and where we're at, where we're still pretty new as a band, we're not concerned about that. But when we move forward, like we're all saying and agreeing right now, it's kind of just better to put all your time into one song and put it out when it's done and kind of take the scene. Now, John and I have been writing a lot more, you know, since August of twenty twenty four when we first started. So we've got a better pool of like demos and stuff. So it's kind of like just a balancing act of doing the same.
giving fans what they really want, but we'll still have, I think, a robust album where there's a release that comes with a lot of stuff people can be happy about that they haven't heard yet.
Jason Ziolo
I think it's the way everyone's doing it these days. I don't blame you at all. I do, and you alluded to this, JT, I miss the full albums. I absolutely sat down for 45 minutes to an hour, and I want to receive the message wholly, if you will. And it's dying and falling away, which is sad. And it doesn't feel right when you pull up an album and you're like, oh, a new album, a new album. I know eight out of the 11 songs already.
But that's just the way it is. You got all that joy previously one by one versus now, and just how it is.
Chris
I'm with you Jason. I mean, it's like they're stripping everything away from us, you know So for folks of our age of our vintage, know first they took the physical release out Okay, you can't see the album artwork You can't see the liner notes who their friends are and other bands and stuff like that that we did back in the 90s Now, you know, we hear all the songs ahead of time. So it's like there's nothing new now I will say on the flip side what I do like about it is
Jason Ziolo
Vintage, I like it.
Chris
If you're an artist and you're thinking about trying something new, a great opportunity to get that song out there, see what the reception is from your fan base, see if they like this new direction or not. And it kind of gives you a little insight. AJ, you and John, I really love that new song that you had, Angel Weans, that was a little different from some of the other stuff. And so for me, I'm like, man, I hope they continue to go down this road.
Maybe not with every song, but just here and there, incorporate different elements of that. But I think it's a cool way to get that instant feedback and see if you get your finger on the pulse or if you need a pivot.
AJ
Yeah, it's funny like like John said it's kind of it's been like half necessity because we literally hit the ground running when we decided to form the band and we just had to write and then release as we go. So it's kind of cool and I think we'll look back on and at least fans will look back on seeing the evolution in literal real time. Like this wasn't planned. We didn't plan that, you know, two or two years back that Angel Wings was going to come out now and that was going to be the direction. So it's kind of fun in that regard. But like you just said,
Chris, we, and this is the core that I think a lot of bands have, we want to write stuff that we like and so we do always take and we'll always you know look at the comments and start or at least I will of like how people like you know certain songs and the different stuff that we're trying but it really is more for the single stuff just us writing what we want to listen to and then us between me and John deciding is this worth getting put out as a single and that's kind of the process we'll take moving forward as we like write more songs collectively but yeah so it's
It's just been funny. It was not by design that we've been doing things the way that they've been done.
Jason Ziolo
Should we move forward with the Okaya interview or should we backtrack to let Parker talk about the albums he wanted? I can cut this up any way we want.
John
Your guys' call.
Jason Ziolo
Parker, I'm looking to you.
AJ
to
you.
Parker
It's not
very long. I got three things. That's it.
Chris
Parker, let's hear from you,
Jason Ziolo
Hi. Parker,
AJ
Alright.
Jason Ziolo
tell us a
little about these albums you've been jiving to lately. That's right, I said jiving.
John
I that part out.
Parker
Yeah, yeah, let's move to the heavier side of things ⁓ as I always do We got two smaller bands that released a couple things this couple last weeks the great American ghost Came out with a new album called tragedy of the commons They are very much modern modern metalcore gent that world album slams
Jason Ziolo
you
Chris
You
Parker
Go show them love. They're fantastic. They're awesome. They're going to do great things. This album really kicks ass. It's amazing. And then Midwinter, which is more of the modern core, more like Bring Me the Horizon style. ⁓
Jason Ziolo
I've never heard the phrase
modern core. There's always a new core when I turn the corner.
Parker
Yeah, that's fair.
It's more heavy chorus-y, got the electronics going, but they do bring it when they bring it. It's usually not really my cup of tea, that style, but I do like this band a lot. So they just dropped two albums. Go follow them on Spotify and give them some love. They're really good. For more like...
established bands. We've got Fit for an Autopsy. They just dropped a new single called The Wretch.
Jason Ziolo
I haven't heard of those guys.
That's a funny band name though. I kind of dig it.
Parker
They are very heavy, I'll put it that way. They're very awesome, they slam. This single is really awesome. And then a name that I haven't said in a long time, Devil Wears Prada, just came out with a new single.
Jason Ziolo
I've been seeing that and I've got actually a friend who's a huge Devil Wears Prada fan and he is jacked for this new album.
Parker
Yes,
it is back to basics for them. I feel like we're seeing a lot of bands from the 2010s metalcore era going back to basics. It started a few years ago, Miss May I and Memphis Mayfire kind of started dropping some more back to their roots type stuff. And then I feel like we've been seeing a lot of other bands from that era start to drop.
stuff that's back to basics and All Out is very much Devil Wears Prada from 2010s era. It's modernized for sure, but it hits like metalcore in the 2010s. And I felt like I was at... Well said.
Jason Ziolo
You call Devil Wears Prada Metalcore? Because they kind
of got, you call Devil Wears Prada Metalcore? I don't know a lot about them, but they seem to get like almost a punk thrash vibe to them a bit. Or am I completely crazy?
Parker
yeah.
Well,
2010s for them was definitely metalcore and then they kind of changed their vibe for a bit, right? And they kind of went all over the place and their hardcore fans didn't love it. Newer fans kind of came and went and I feel like they're coming back and trying to go back to their metalcore basics, which they very much were in that scene. Vans Warped Tour through 2010s through 2015 or whenever that ran its course.
⁓ But they, I love to see these bands coming back to basics. It's very modernized. Like I said, Ms. May, dropped some new songs a couple years back and they brought out the seven strings. So they upgraded and went heavier and went deeper, richer sounds. Yes. Absolutely. But it's very much back to basics for them.
Chris
.
Jason Ziolo
in upgrades that the seven strings means upgrade in Parker's mind.
Parker
It's, I'm excited. I'm hoping that the whole album is gonna be kind of more back to their roots. And then everybody in the Chicago and Milwaukee area should come hang out at the Era's current show that is taking place at House of Blues. They've got two dates, the 28th and the 29th, and the rave up in Milwaukee on the 31st. I will be at both.
So there's a chance you see me and we get to hang out and have a beer. But that's gonna kick ass. They've got caskets and Aviana supporting on this leg and it's gonna be an amazing show. I purchased tickets for me and my buddy for the 31st and I said, fuck it, I can't not see these guys at House of Blues 2. So I'm going to two shows, the 29th and the 31st.
AJ
Love caskets.
Parker
I'll be in Chicago and Milwaukee with some friends.
Jason Ziolo
going to the second
Chicago show or the first Chicago show? That's going to be better, a better show in my, I'm guessing, because first of all, they're warmed up. And number two, House of Blues is the worst venue in Chicago. You've heard me say it over and over and over. And that means they probably sold out the first one. They added a second show. And hopefully, it won't be so crowded. So that's what I want to go to if we go.
Parker
It will be the second for me on Sunday. I'll be at House of Blues.
Yeah.
I'm
Yeah.
I was thinking that as well, and when I purchased the rave tickets, I was like, ⁓ god, this is the rave. And I was like, you know what, maybe I should just book House of Blues just in case, because the rave is not a great venue either, in my opinion. But it'll...
Jason Ziolo
I've never been to the rave. Isn't that
weird? I've never been to the rave. Every time I've gone, they've moved it to the Eagles ballroom, which is connecting to the rave. I've never, because the rave is, I guess, a small club underneath the Eagle ballroom. And every time I go, gets up.
Parker
You haven't.
Yes, they did. They did.
Yes. Yes.
Yes. Yep. So I will be at both shows and you should come hang out. We can have a beer.
Jason Ziolo
I am going tomorrow, I am going to see the Bring Me the Horizon movie. So I'm pretty psyched about that, that'll be cool, because they're doing like a theater release. And I feel like I've seen this Bring Me the Horizon tour show with the visuals. They've been rehashing this for like five years now, I feel like. And Chris, when we went to Sick New World, when they headlined three years ago, two years ago.
AJ
Oui.
Chris
So the bands normally play...
Parker
Au
Jason Ziolo
We saw basically the same show back to back. And I'm guessing it's going to be the same show. I don't care, though, because it fucking rules. And it's going to be awesome. I mean, I'm going to the Hives on Thursday, which Chris, you told me they were touring. I looked them up. I said they're going to be in Chicago. And I said I'm not missing it. So I'm really excited about that one. AJ is going to go to that. Parker, should come. JT, you should come. And we should go have some fun.
You saw the hives, Chris. Tell me, how were they?
AJ
Sweet.
Chris
That
tour, I swear they hit Houston like, yeah they hit Houston like months ago. I'm surprised, they must have took a break somewhere in between. But yeah, if you haven't seen them, their front man, I mean, I don't know how much coke he does ahead of time.
Jason Ziolo
I've seen them, I know what I'm getting into
and that's why I'm going. Like the music is a solid B plus. The stage presence is like an A plus plus.
Chris
Yeah.
yeah, like I mean he is the epitome of what you want in a frontman. Like really funny, super energetic, like he has a really good knack for knowing how the audience feels, how to get them back into it and all of that. I just a great showman. Again, Jason's point, whether you like the music or love it or just kind of like ⁓ on it, it's definitely worth going. Great frontman.
Jason Ziolo
Yeah, where this is education for you before you on the road with Red AJ. This ⁓ is how a weed singer commands the stage and it's insane.
AJ
noted. I'm excited.
Chris
Bring your pen and paper, AJ.
Jason Ziolo
There it is. Nice, Matching suits are optional.
Chris
Here we go.
AJ
Got it right here.
Do they do that? Is that their thing?
Jason Ziolo
They
do, they're all gonna have black and white checkered suits on, glow in the dark guitar straps, neon, it's...
Chris
Yes.
AJ
That's
awesome. I was talking Forget who I was talking to but like when John and I are trying to figure out our our wardrobe and stuff There's like so many bands that look generic But then there's also I feel like there's just now an equal number of bands that are so over-the-top with the stage stuff And you love them both, but it's so funny thinking you know you could make a whole a whole skit out of what you do on stage
John
Yeah, you
just need the hot dog nose masks.
Jason Ziolo
That's exactly right, yep.
AJ
Yeah,
Jason Ziolo
Cool.
Chris, anything you want to add before we dig in Okaya?
Chris
Now let's do it then.
Jason Ziolo
All right, cool. John AJ, awesome. So you guys are in a band called OKAYA. You guys fucking rule. I really am legitimately a fan, and I know the guys here are. We talk about you over text message, and it's too bad Reed's not here, because Reed is like an Uber fan. He is into you guys. So very cool, neat stuff. Tell us a little bit about who you are.
AJ
sweet.
Jason Ziolo
who your influences are, and then maybe we'll take a little bit in the back story.
AJ
You wanna go first, John? Okay, yeah, I'll be brief. ⁓ So my name is AJ and I write.
John
You go first.
AJ
sing, play a touch of guitar if it's an acoustic version and our guitarist is out and I need to fill in. But yeah, I I've wanted to do music for a very long time and I'm really fortunate to have met John and we founded the band back in like August of 2024. Yeah, I don't really know what to say about me if you want.
Jason Ziolo
How'd you get hooked up with JT?
Maybe tell us a little bit about how that process happened.
AJ
Okay, yeah, I'll just, I'll kind of give a brief synopsis, because there was a lot of...
Jason Ziolo
John, do you prefer John
or JT or does it not matter to you?
John
It does not matter to me. People like call me JT, so I don't mind rolling with that.
Jason Ziolo
You are JT to me, so I'm gonna go with that.
How'd you guys get hooked up? I know the story, but share to the masses.
AJ
⁓
Yeah, I had a really good experience.
getting with some best friends of mine from my childhood and trying to start a band called Unkept and that was a project that led me to John because through a variety of different connections and stuff and I mean literally the craziest connections of like my best friends, family's friend who happened to bump into them at a karaoke bar like it literally is stars aligned to just allow me to be fortunate enough to reach out to a guy who's a phenomenal musician in his own right for another
Jason Ziolo
You got some
AJ
Well, I'm trying
Jason Ziolo
brown on your nose, homeboy.
AJ
to give credit where credit's due. ⁓ So I just reached out to a guy named Parker in a band called Starkill and Parker directed me to John. And John, over the course of like a summer and a half, yeah about a summer and...
Chris
Ha ha ha ha.
AJ
about a half a year we did this album for the project Unkept and through that process he really played just the role of kind of do it all and we have a guy Matt who you know Jason was able to pretty much to track
Jason Ziolo
He was with you
on the podcast last time in the background.
AJ
Yes, yep. And he's my best friend. I went to college with him. so long story short, we pretty much have this project. We put out this album that John really just helped create. was all the songs I had in my phone. And that whole thing, what ended up happening is John and I worked together so much just because, again, I was the main songwriter and John was producing, mixing, doing all the production and all the stuff that he's doing now for us. But we just had such a good chemistry. And John was like, you know, do you want
like I have all these songs that I've been writing. I didn't even know John was a songwriter. I thought his world was just like a drummer and I thought he just wanted to mix for bands in the scene or whatever. But we became really good friends and I just got to see this dude on a whole new level when we got tighter, you know, just when I would go up to his house and it was just the two of us working on these songs. And John obviously smoke like he's been doing this stuff for so long. He'll talk about, you know, his background stuff, but he just blew me away with his talent and ability. So we kicked up Okaya and without
getting into the weeds just through the process of like not being into bands because I had just kicked out this album with Unkept and we'd started putting out some covers and stuff I was like you know let's just let's just create a cohesive project and and again it Okaya started when John and I got together and put out actually funny we put out a cover of Take Me to Church and that was really kind of what started it but then we got around to yeah
Jason Ziolo
Hozier who is it Hozier or Hozier?
Cuz you know French. It's Hozier. I think.
AJ
I think, I think Hozier. Yeah.
Chris
I
don't think it's French, Jason.
AJ
So, yeah. He's Irish, but yeah. so that's a brief synopsis and John's got a really cool background that he's gone through and stuff, but for I guess to wrap it up for me is I've been really fortunate.
Parker
Thank
Jason Ziolo
So John, what's your background? How did this all
play out for you? You're doing your thing and you got AJ coming in riding your coattails. I say that in jest, of course.
AJ
You
John
Well, yes, quite the opposite.
Yeah, so I grew up as a drummer primarily in bands really into hardcore and heavy music. And that was kind of like my first love after sports. In high school, I kind of switched from playing baseball, which I was really into, pretty much going full tilt with music. And I met my best friend, Nick, who now plays guitar with Okaya. And we...
just spend all of our time together working on songs and writing and stuff like that. And I think we went to a recording studio and had like a horrible experience when I was probably 14 years old. Just the producer there was frankly not a very nice person and made all of us feel extremely insecure. And we're like young dudes. We had never been in a studio. so it was like a pretty traumatizing experience for some of the dudes. Yeah. I remember, our
Jason Ziolo
That sucks. That's all. That sucks.
John
vocalist who was taking up singing. he did a take and the producer just stopped it and was like, ⁓ could you try to not sound like a goat, man? And he's just like funny looking back at that stuff. So I just remember being super interested in that stuff and looking over his shoulder and got obsessed with the production and technical side of recording and mixing. And then I thought, like,
Jason Ziolo
Ooh.
John
If I could do this for my band, that would be awesome. We don't have to pay for recordings and save up all this money that we don't have. So that was kind of my role ever since then. I picked up like a little bit of guitar, but would always kind of do like producing and production. That was always my mindset of like every band that I record, how can I do something to like elevate the song, whether that's, you know, adding it.
Jason Ziolo
So you're a
producer and you record with other bands, right?
John
Yes, that was like my main job and I was really heavily involved in like the pop punk scene in 2016 in Chicago. So tons of bands that would play shows like four or five on a bill. You know, I would just get referrals from them and just kind of get more and more experience and work myself up that way. So in between that, I got some opportunities with drumming and that's how AJ threw this band Star Kill. They're from my same hometown.
and they had started going on tours and I was completely green, had no experience whatsoever, but they hired me to be their live sound guy on a tour and I had never done live sound before. I had just done studio work. So was pretty much just figure it out. Like you a good luck kind of thing. My first show was at the Gramercy Theater in New York, which is like a pretty nice thousand cap venue. And I remember they had like a $60,000 crazy sound craft.
Parker
you
John
mixing board might have been a different brand, but I was just freaking out. Luckily every venue has a house sound guy, so I just relied on them to like please help me make this band not sound terrible. So long story short, I just kind of kept doing that and from my time doing sound in Starkill, eventually I took over to fill in on drums for them and I did a tour in 2019 with Starkill, another band called
Dance with the Dead and the headliner was Dragon Force.
Jason Ziolo
Dragon Force, famous Dragon Force from Guitar Hero through the Fire and Flames. That's how I know Dragon Force, yep.
AJ
Yep.
Yep, same here.
John
Yeah, it's backwards, but
that's the drumhead from the 2019 tour. So from that tour, the band Dance With The Dead didn't have a drummer, and they were the middle band. So it was really weird to go from the opening band having a full sound, middle band nothing, and then the headliner having drums. So they, long story short, hired me to be their drummer. And in between all this touring,
Jason Ziolo
Cool.
John
I was still recording and mixing bands and that was always kind of in the back of my mind of like, Hey, I, I ever had the opportunity to have my own project that kind of was like more in line with my roots of heavier music. And I still love, you know, just big courses and melodies and stuff like that. that would be awesome. And that's kind of where AJ came in the picture and around 2024, he got in touch with me through my original band, Stark Hill Parker, the guitarist. And I remember listening to the demos and like,
Yeah, they were pretty, pretty bad sounding. it's unkept demos and they were God awful sound quality, but the LF is like very laughable, but the courses and like the song structures, was like, okay, like I can hear this. AJ has a sick voice and I know he's got like an ear for melody, which is super important. And I'd love to do what I always want to do is like make the song as huge as possible. And you know, just put like the
AJ
You
Jason Ziolo
These are uncapped demos, right?
John
John Terry sound thing on it. So through working with AJ, just realized like, damn, we pretty much have the exact same tastes and mindset regarding music. And I just love that AJ wasn't a band dude. Like he didn't grow up playing in bands the same way that I did. So at first it was, it was kind of frustrating just because of like the gap in experience and stuff like that. But it was like a completely fresh, non-jaded perspective, which I really came to appreciate because
Jason Ziolo
sure.
John
yeah, I've been doing this for so long and it's like, you know, you kind of get into the routine and the rut of stuff. So yeah, from there, we just kind of had a conversation one day. We ended up living together. We'd go on, we go on morning walks and I would like have a rucksack. So we would get our little morning workout in and we would just talk about music and everything. and yeah, I was just like, well, man, like I can't sing for shit and you have an amazing voice.
AJ
Yeah
Jason Ziolo
Aww.
John
If I ever did a project, I just need a singer. Would you want to do this?
AJ
I have
a theory. I have to say this dude, every time John planned this
in advance, dude. He asked me, he asked me, we were, you know, working on the Unkept stuff and he was like, I mean, dude, you're 24. I'm 20. I think you were like 26 or 27 at the time. And we were both like single, working on music, trying to like just, you know, do what we want. Yeah, let hear me out. We were we were taking like the bro approach, though. We were like, let's let's, you know, move in together and let's go after like I'll help you with them. And then and then he had like I told you songs.
John
Easy now ⁓
Jason Ziolo
Yeah.
Chris
You
AJ
written and there was like heart box or like he had some names for projects that he was thinking of at the time and I was like dude I'll totally sing for your stuff but these were two separate things but when he finally came around to asking me like why don't we just like do our own like separate project I was like this was totally planned six months in advance you'd call me to move in you'd get me buttered up and then we'd kick off a band so yeah no no dude it's so great I'm seriously John John
Jason Ziolo
Put a little wine in ya, buy ya a nice dinner.
Chris
Ha ha ha ha ha!
AJ
John and I are obviously like best friends too and it was just so funny looking back like he said we moved in together and then just immediately started like alright we're gonna wake up at 7 a.m. work out we're gonna be in the studio from X time to X time and and then it's just funny like why didn't we start why didn't we start a band six months sooner when you know we were kind of already leaning that way but yeah sorry sorry John to cut you off I just I love people knowing that
John
No, but I...
Jason Ziolo
feel like it's a good time
to share my story. So when I first met you, AJ, we worked together, right? That's how we know each other, not even through music. And I remember scrolling Facebook, and you had liked a Ronnie Radke post. Here we are back to Ronnie. And I remember texting you going, hey, you're into this stuff. So am I. And you're like, yeah, dude, I'm in a band. I'm writing songs. I can't play any instruments. I've never been in a band.
AJ
Yeah.
Jason Ziolo
And if I'm being honest, there's a little of an eye roll like, yeah, okay, buddy, sure. You're in a band. And then I kind of watched you progress. I knew you before you met John. I remember when you were going out to my, like kind of out where I live and you're like, I'm gonna go meet with my potential producer and interview him. And I kind of kept my eye on it because I produced and recorded my whole album 2008, almost 20 years ago now.
And I was like, I know how hard it is. And so when I remember I followed you and I told you I will be at your first show, I will be at the record release, I will be all those things. And when you had the record release, you threw a house party and I met John for the first time and got to listen to the album. And I remember going, holy shit, egg on my face. I'm gonna have to eat everything I said.
John
Yeah.
Jason Ziolo
And
I actually, the next day, I remember getting up, walking around the, taking like an hour walk around the neighborhood. And I texted you a big voice memo and I was like, so proud of you, this is so good. I didn't think you had it in you, I'm so impressed. And so that's really cool. And I guess where I'm really getting with this story, AJ, you're extremely talented guy, but John, I am so impressed with your skills, your recording skills, your producing skills, taking...
AJ
Yeah, you texted me. I remember this text.
Thanks, man.
Jason Ziolo
Taking what I'm assuming AJ gave you, which you just said, and turning it into gold, it's awesome. And I'm extremely jealous of your skill set. And you guys are going to go places. Pretty cool.
AJ
Shit.
John
Appreciate that.
AJ
Thanks so much man. It really did mean a lot to me waking up hungover and you said a voice bit. You I think were on the walk and you were like and it was so nice and coming from you I mean for yeah people who don't know I on a professional level I worked for Jason and yeah I had no idea you know your passion for music and stuff so it kind of hits on a different level whenever you like something so I really do appreciate that.
John
Thank you. Yeah.
Jason Ziolo
Hahaha!
We always verbally
spar over your process and it's very different than my process. So I'm 46, you're probably 20 years younger than me-ish. And I would, when I describe you to friends, I'm in a band, and when I describe you to my band members, I describe you as a studio project. You guys record first, you utilize social media to get a following, and honestly, you've got more success than I've ever had in any band I've ever.
AJ
Yes.
Jason Ziolo
Seeing your million streams and it's a but your world for me I'm like you got to get in a room for four hours a week Crank the amps and just vibe together and let it organically come out and then you get fans by going out and doing shows and winning over the crowd It's totally totally different and I'm still struggle with is this about me being vintage and not keeping up with the times
Or is this how everyone does it now? Or is this just a different way to do it? What have you guys seen out there? Tell me, what's this process? What do you think about my process versus your process and the new way of bringing abandon? Now, it's less of a question, but I know you guys have, I'm sure you have a lot to say and I wanna hear how you feel about
AJ
Yeah, we'll just real fi-
Just on what you said, we have talked about it in the past and I feel the same way. It was always, I always felt a little jaded whenever you tell, because this is again back in like the unkept days and you're like, stop, stop going to the studio and just getting jammed together. And I'm, yeah.
Jason Ziolo
I did, was kind of a dick about it sometimes too. like, you need
to get in a room and play your instruments and stop recording. I'm pretty wrong, actually.
AJ
Right, yeah. I-
Well, it's funny. really is. There's like two phases of it. I think it's like the songwriting phase and then the phase you're talking about where it's like, okay, now how do we try to get big? How do you try to get exposure? The songwriting phase? I'm not saying you're wrong with the jamming stuff. Some John and I were trying in our process, especially once we both get back from our separate tours, we want to do, I wouldn't call it jamming, but we want to get in the room together and really lay down ideas on the fly. Like, like do that organic process. There's a whole, whole bunch of,
huge songwriters that we look up to like Ryan Tedder and Just a couple other guys where you see their process is kind of like that So I was never digging the process, but my whole thing and I love John explaining his process I I write songs when they either come to me or if I'm like in my studio right here I'll just play chords on a guitar and I hum out melodies and I think there's just a totally different process today than there was back then Like Motley Crue for example, you had just all these different amazing, you
an amazing bassist, guitar player, singer, where the jamming together was probably more...
Jason Ziolo
I enjoy that you left out the drummer, but go
ahead.
AJ
Yeah, right, right.
Well, it was just a different process then. So to like create songs for me and John, it's very individual, but then brought together when we make our own demos and then bring them to each other. And I can talk about it for hours. That's my favorite part of doing it. I wouldn't even, I didn't even plan on singing three years ago. Like I wasn't going to be the lead singer when I was just with Andrew wanting to start a band. And so it's like, all I care about is songwriting. As like cliche as that is, you picture the girl that sits on her bed playing the ukulele, who
Parker
Thank
AJ
you comes up with 90 songs that all sound the same. It's like I just love the songwriting process. So I just wanted to make that note where you and me were always beefing, you know, two years ago when I wasn't doing the formal band jamming because I can't play an instrument. It was it was still, you know, very lucrative. But just last thing I'll say really quick on the on the exposure side, it is totally different. And I think I was telling John, like even five years ago or maybe maybe a little longer, maybe like seven years ago, you could
get away with trying to tour and trying to get what I would just call like a grassroots level of exposure. But the competition now that's really all it is. It's like John said, the the attention economy and the competition because of TikTok, Instagram reels, Facebook reels. If you don't have some kind of supplementary imagery and video content to go with the music. And this is also this is what
why we also said about the album. It's like people just won't listen if they've never heard you before. Fans will, fans want to listen to as much as whatever they like. But if you're trying to gain fans, you just can't put out 10 songs on Spotify and then not say anything about it. It just won't get picked up.
John
Yeah.
mean, yeah, that was, that was a huge part of our inception was like, how do we do this differently and not be a quote unquote, like local band mindset, just from me observing the bands that I've recorded and saying that they would spend eight months recording something and pouring their hearts into their art. And then just have the promotion side of it be a two week campaign and not like maybe a music video and then a release show. And that's it.
AJ
Yeah.
John
and then they would just constantly keep playing shows within the same market, I would just see that not working over and over again. it's almost just kind of, you just have to be as like, just a business, like keeping an eye on what is changing, what still works, because playing shows obviously still works. But for us, we feel like it's much more valuable to build a fan base online and people and really get the buzz before we venture out and spend all this time and effort.
into like a live performance, which eventually I think we will do. But it's just the building stage and, you know, seeing bands that have gotten signed without even playing a show is crazy. I remember this band, Woe Is Me on Rise Records, they had gotten signed and they hadn't even played a show and they were a band. I was like, that's just crazy, man. Like you have to do Warped Tour and you got to like go, you know, like the rock band video game. Like you got to start in the garage and work your way up. And it is crazy to see the changes.
Chris
Thank
Jason Ziolo
And like AJ, I mean this whole thing with Red, you're going out with them. You've played a minimal amount of shows in your lifetime. And I can't comprehend this whole idea that your first show is opening up for Breaking Benjamin, your favorite band, in front of tens of thousands of people. And being the lead singer, like what a mind fuck. I'm so excited for you. John, you've done some of this.
AJ
⁓ Thanks dude, yeah.
Parker
Hahaha!
AJ
Thank you.
Jason Ziolo
You are out with Dance with the Dead, and you've personally shown me pictures of some of these crowds you've played to, which are, you know, if I get 40, 50 people in a crowd, I am ecstatic as a local musician. For you, that's like, you know, that's, you got 40, 50 people within 10 feet of you on stage.
What does that feel like?
John
It's crazy. It's definitely, I kind of have like a photographic memory of the moment the adrenaline hits for certain different sizes of shows. Like I remember the first festival that I played was, it was just like a different level. Like you've unlocked something new. And then, you know, the first time I played with Dance with the Dead in the Netherlands, that was my first show with them. And I'll always remember, there was like 350 people there, but we're backstage and I'm just hearing the crowd talking, like just the
Chris
Wow.
John
the murmur of the crowd and I'm like, man, this is for a band that I'm playing for. Like these people are all here for my band. I'm not like a opening band and that freaked me out. it's, yeah, it is a very crazy, which is why it is, you know, the power of the internet is insane, especially in the case with, with AJ and you know, that.
Parker
you
AJ
Yeah, they didn't see me play something.
Yeah, they didn't see me live and we're like, that guy's good. It's Randy. It's so cool. I mean, I have, I think I still have it actually. Sarah packed it away. Breaking Benjamin commented on, you know, my cover of breath. And that's just something like, that's so mind blowing to me.
Jason Ziolo
I've seen, you've got that framed in your apartment
when I was there. John Fray, aw, look at that bromance, adorable.
AJ
John, John framed it just so it doesn't seem as conceited. Yeah, it was
a yeah, a friendly gift. But no, but it's my favorite gift I have here because like that that didn't come from playing 90 show. So it is a little like it kind of sucks for, you know, people like you, Jason, where you put in the work, you've you've done the physical labor of playing shows and like trying to, you know, build a presence in a scene. And I'm I say this to like any of my friends who like just find out I got into music. I still have people from
John
I guess.
AJ
high school that texted me like two weeks ago where they're like dude I didn't know you were in a band I got lucky I got really really lucky with the breath cover that kind of like put everything on a trajectory that I think which again ties into the red thing they didn't see me play live I wasn't playing shows I just have been fortunate enough to get with the guy like John who can make anything sound amazing and a really good opportunity just you know happened to to happen because we just put in the work in a different way so
Jason Ziolo
Do you know what video
they saw of you?
AJ
Yeah, well, sorry, that's what I meant to say. Breath, comments, on the cover... Yeah, yeah.
Jason Ziolo
I'm talking about red now. I know breaking down is
messed up, but what did red see?
AJ
Well, that's
how Red found it, actually. The guitarist of Breaking Benjamin, his name's Keith Wallen, he's actually a really good solo project, too. He, his best friend is the tour manager of Red. And so when they, yeah, when they were looking for a singer, he pretty much told them. So that makes me feel even cooler. Like, I love that that was even the connection that got Red to...
Jason Ziolo
are.
You deserve to feel cool for that. You can have that one. Because that's pretty fucking cool.
John
Thank you.
AJ
It's insane, man, it's insane. So yeah, that's how that happened.
Jason Ziolo
Well,
guys, I really need to piss. So let's take a two minute break and I'm going to refill too. And then we'll probably go another 20 minutes or so and call it.
Chris
Yes.
AJ
Yeah, Sarah's Sarah's trying to get me to drink. I don't know if you saw my text, John.
John
Sounds good.
Jason Ziolo
Or you
can continue without me, that's cool too.
AJ
you
John
That's crazy work.
AJ
That is crazy.
Chris
So AJ,
I did have a question. I don't know if we want to continue without Jason, but so actually a couple of questions for you. Speaking of Red, first off, sounds like you haven't toured a whole lot. So are you going out seeking advice from others on what to expect, what to be prepared for, how to pack, all that kind of good stuff?
AJ
at all.
Yeah, and 90 % of it is this dude right here. John has, like I said, decades of experience on, well not decades with touring, but I don't really have a lot of connections, so to answer your question bluntly, it's like I really just talked to John about what I should expect. I've talked with a couple, so Red is two brothers, and then they're bringing back a drummer who I guess was really, I don't know if he was the founding member, but he was there for a very long time. I've been texting with him.
a little bit to just get more of insight, but yeah, I haven't really had the opportunity to reach out for advice from people who I would like to hear it from.
Chris
So what about vocally? Singing night after night, that's obviously something different for you. I don't know if John's giving you any advice as a non-singer, but thoughts on that?
AJ
Yeah, I actually...
I I misspoke there. There is a guy his name is Julian Como I think is how you pronounce it. I actually I forgot to tell you this John. He's the lead singer I guess he's really just the entire project of this band called loveless. I don't know if you've ever heard of them Insanely talented and I texted him about two weeks ago I didn't text him I DMed him on Instagram and he actually got back to me and gave me a lot of advice for touring and stuff I essentially just asked him two questions. I asked him I
will, I asked him if A, what his routine... So my whole thing, Chris, to get granular, I can't sustain high notes very long because I just haven't... I mean, I'm getting vocal lessons now. I've been getting vocal lessons for the past month now. But my whole problem is I just blow my voice early. So if you hear a lot of the Okai songs and just how we write them anyway, the chorus, as always, I'm trying to hit a B flat, an A, sometimes a B. And so my whole, my biggest... ⁓
Jason Ziolo
you
AJ
Healy's
Heal has just been the range tied with the conditioning. So I was talking to this Julian guy and he gave really good advice just around like how to, know, outside of like don't drink, don't, you know, do things to damage your voice, but to also find ways to like mitigate the way in which I'm singing stuff. guys like him, you know, mean the world to a dude as just new and young as me. And then tie that in with the vocal coach that John and I found and he's an awesome guy. name's Norwood.
And like it's, it's, it's kind of just a combination of like taking the advice that I can use and tying it with like actual technical coaching that I'm getting from Norwood. So yeah, that's my answer.
Jason Ziolo
How's
Chris
Yeah,
Jason Ziolo
the coaching going?
Chris
it's awesome. It's awesome. then last question. Sorry, I was just gonna ask. So obviously you have somewhat of a relationship, it sounds like, with Breaking Benjamin. Obviously, huge fan, going back to when you were younger. I mean, are you gonna try to get on stage with those guys, play a song with them, sing some vocals? Like, what are your thoughts?
Jason Ziolo
yeah!
AJ
I'll try I would love to they're there. I mean they're literally my I might I probably shouldn't be doing this if I'm about to go play, you know in front of them, but I mean I literally got them tattooed on my arm. They're They're kind and you can hear it in the songwriting of Okaya 2 like like I I can't explain enough how just insanely in love with with the music and You know what they really have done for me in my life So it's just funny you asked that question and not my brains just like spinning like dude I
Parker
Yeah.
Chris
Ha ha ha.
AJ
I'm gonna need a diaper to even say hi to Ben like I'm not I'm not I don't know if I could go play on You know do a song with them alone like no, but like all jokes aside. I'm open to any and all opportunity This again is just I feel lucky over anything So it's like I'm just taking it in stride and like whatever I can do I just plan on being the nicest coolest dude just put keeping my head down doing what I need to do for the guys in red and just trying to be a fun time and Just doing my job, and if there's an opportunity
Jason Ziolo
You
Chris
Hahaha
Jason Ziolo
That's the right way to approach
AJ
Yeah, for
Jason Ziolo
it, man. I think so. Stay humble.
Chris
I think what you
AJ
sure.
Chris
need to do AJ is you need to their singer sick or he can't sing one day. Spike his drink and you play the show for him.
Jason Ziolo
Why don't you run the voice box?
AJ
No!
John
Yeah.
AJ
Yeah, you know what's
funny is I'm more prepared to do that, not the offensive. But I could go rip a Breaking Benjamin set right now before I could even do Red. I'm learning so many songs right now that it's a struggle. But ⁓ no, that's funny. Yeah.
Jason Ziolo
We'll save that for a later time.
Parker
I got a couple
questions for you guys. I know there's a story behind the name. You're have to have to tell us what that is.
AJ
Yeah, I was just John and I when we moved in together and we finally decided we wanted a project. We were both on the same page that we like there's so many just bad band names out there. And so we just wanted something that sounds cool. And so I still have it saved in my phone. I love it. There's a list of just like options I'm throwing at him of like road road. Yeah.
Whatever. These all like weird sounding names. And so we got to one that was Ohkaya and John's dog, who's just the sweetest angel. His name is Kaya. And I didn't even like, I didn't even realize that when we were going back and forth on this stuff. But we had just done a bunch of words that just sounded cool. That's really all the backstory is. And then finally when we were, and it's even better now knowing that the name Kaya is freaking John's dog. We were like, that's perfect. It sounds cool.
Parker
Yeah.
AJ
It's good for SEO. A lot of people pronounce it wrong, which sucks, but I mean, it is what it is. I don't know, John, do you remember anything significant besides?
John
No,
mean, yeah, just wanting it phonetically to sound somewhat interesting and like not ethereal, more kind of like a nature sounding-ish word that kind of tied into the vibe that we're looking for. And then, yeah, just getting it out of the way as soon as possible because doing band names is like the worst, most torturous thing possible. Like it's one of my favorite things in the world. Yeah, so.
AJ
This is a reminder.
Jason Ziolo
Agreed.
Parker
⁓ Okay, there's a reminder. ⁓ You guys do bring the punch with the music. What influences do you guys start with when you're writing a song? Is it different? Is it always kind of the same avenue, venue of music? Or what's the process with that kind of stuff?
John
That's a reminder.
Jason Ziolo
Hahaha
AJ
Thanks
John
Well, we always have like a core kind of sound which is in the rock-ish world, but we always pull, I mean even day-to-day just influences from things that inspire us. But I think it's from a foundational, just core influence of the bands that we grew up listening to that we love. Like my favorite band of all time is Avenged Sevenfold and you know, I grew up...
getting really into post hardcore music and some of the bands that I grew up playing with like sworn in the heavier bands. I still love to like spoon feed those influences into our heavier sections. And, you know, AJ is super into different pop artists as well as myself. And it's like, you know, we just want to do kind of a fresh blend of everything that we love and always just push ourselves to write songs that I think we want to listen to, but also
just pushing the envelope because I'm personally just never satisfied with a generic type of thing. I've always kind of been that way even in my productions of like, do I elevate this to make it cool or interesting? So just energetic and exciting and everything in between.
AJ
Yeah.
Yeah, I think the number one thing like John said, and I already said it is we just want to enjoy listening to it. So I'm definitely it feels conceited, but I listen to our songs all the time because part partly because, you know, John and I, some songs, you know, we write more of than the other person. So songs that John had a much more of like the actual core writing of I love because it's like it didn't come from my brain and that's super it's like I'm listening to my favorite band, you know, getting to work with with John. Yeah, it's awesome. And then
Jason Ziolo
Absolutely,
AJ
like for all the stuff I write if I again can come up and again I'm still very green in this process but but typically my songwriting process is like I said I'll jam out some chords a lot of times my favorite is when I have a melody in my head that like I pray to God it's not already out there but it just like came to me and then I'll just try to find a chord sequence you know that that fits it and then I'll just build a song from that and then that's where John is the best dude to work with because then I could pass him something that is very very bland and then what really makes Okaya
is kind of the writing going through John and me. I do a lot of the producing and like and telling him, know, what I would like to have with the strings and the orchestral and electronic elements. But John makes it happen, dude. It's really just getting the song written, whichever one of us really takes on the beginning of a song. And then where do we want it to go? And last thing I'll say on that is, like John said, our favorite influences, Breaking Benjamin, Avenged Sevenfold, so many bands bring
the horizon sleep token as a recent like there's still a whole other world that I'm looking to tap into with Okaya that I love dark alternative pop music and this whole element of just as long as like John and I always say if you could strip everything away from the song and just play it on acoustic guitar and sing it and you like listening to it that that's our foundation for trying to write good songs and so from there it's like yeah like I said or just our partnership around trying to find the coolest stuff put pushing the envelope like John said and and just seeing where
it goes after a couple weeks of doing that.
Parker
like that. Someone a long time ago told me, don't chase clout, write the music you want to hear. so that resonates with me. So awesome.
AJ
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure man.
John
Yes.
Also a lot harder mentally to try to keep up with the Joneses of what is everybody else doing. It's nice to take that in and as influence or whatever, but I'm going to sit down and try and write this breakdown or something like this is just so conceited and just ends up not working as well in the long run. Like it's scarier to look inward and like, okay, what, you know, like AJ has a vocal idea, a melody. How is he going to build out the chord progression and you know, like
from where the idea happens to where the end of the song is, know, months later after us working, that's kind of Okaya. And it's a process that we continually iterate on like every single day. And that's our main focus is just like being as good as possible with that and being open, open-minded with all this stuff.
AJ
Yeah.
And
on that note, Chris, you had said like Angel Wings is a prime example. And John and I love the backgrounds of like how songs are created. And I would talk about this stuff for hours. like Angel Wings is like 98 percent John. And what what I say, like like we just were saying, and you just said, Parker, write stuff that you want to listen to. But in a crazy way, I also tell John like I want to write something that I want Sleep Token to put out next or what I would want Breaking Benjamin to do, which is a really no artist I think will come out and say that. But that is just such, I think, another
cool angle to come at it so Angel Wings when I'm listening to it I was like dude that's like that's almost what you wish Linkin Park would do if they decided to go heavy and I don't think there's anything wrong in saying that you know it's kind of like having that you know take a step a step back and be a fan as you're also writing the music it's just such a cool a cool angle and Angel Wings was like a great example of that where it's like totally different but the demo John even had before like any mixing and lyrics and any of that got there I was already sold I was like this is so sick from just even
even the intro synth thing. So yeah, just another caveat to the whole songwriting process.
Parker
Definitely. I'm
sure a lot ⁓ of good songs were written with that mentality. And that's how influences work,
Chris
Love that, love that.
AJ
yeah.
John
blue.
Jason Ziolo
You guys have a busy couple months this summer, right? I mean, was the first day of spring, I think was yesterday or two days ago. You're both going to be extremely busy this spring and summer. Tell us a little bit about what you're up to. And then when does OKAYA pick up after that? Or do you keep OKAYA going during that? What's the plan? And explain to me when I say you've got a busy season coming up. Fill that in a little bit. Tell us a little bit what you're doing.
John
Yes.
Yeah, well, I'm going on tour with my, the band that I play drums for, Dance With The Dead. I leave on April 5th, the tour is called the Face Off Tour with, or it's a co-headliner with a band called Magic Sword. And I believe Megan McCuffy is our opener. Yeah, so that's gonna be 42 shows. I will be gone from April 5th to June 1st. So that will be taking up...
AJ
Get tickets now.
Jason Ziolo
It's a lot
of shows and not a lot of time, man.
John
Yeah, it's going to be crazy, but ⁓ this will be my first tour on a tour bus. So I'm really hoping that I'll be.
Jason Ziolo
Cool, you got a boss,
that's gonna be rad.
John
Yeah,
so I should be caught up on sleep and my priority outside of anything else that I do is always okay and working so I will have my my rig mobile rig set up and I will be trying to write and produce and mix and do something every day while I'm on the road. So that will take us to into the summer and on my end at least we're wrapping up this album with a couple more songs and we plan on still working in some capacity.
remotely so that when the summertime does come we're ready to hit the ground running. But AJ, you got plans as well?
AJ
Yeah, I'm very stressed, but in a fortunate spot to be going out with Red on tour. My tour's May 9th to like June 6th or something. So it's literally like half the amount of John's. And for like the on the Okai side of things, I'm actually super stoked that we're able to work so well remotely because we really do that a lot. ⁓
So I don't think we're really gonna have any fall off. I've been writing so much in the past like three or four months because I knew this was coming. I didn't know Red was coming, but I knew John was gonna go on tour and we've kind of had this preconceived timeline of when we wanted to get this album done and then get ready for the next era that we really want to get into. So I've just been writing a bunch of stuff to where when I go on tour, I'm not gonna have I'm not gonna really have the ability to track myself because I'm just gonna be recovering, you know, nonstop. So all of my work in all of April, as
I really am gonna try to take a lot of responsibility on just wrapping up these last few singles, tracking them myself. John can do a lot of mixing and producing on the road. There's a couple music videos that we'll just tease right now we're planning on putting out. That's a whole week...
Jason Ziolo
Tell me more about these music
videos, AJ.
AJ
We'll get
to that. But yeah, so my whole goal is to just pretty much get, I mean candidly, all of this next album written in the next couple of months. Like I said, written a lot. John has a ton that he's, I know for sure, gonna do on the road. And actually, side note, Tristan is another guitarist of ours. He's gonna go in guitar tech for Dance With The Dead. So more of Okai is in Dance With The Dead than I've got with me on the road. So it'll be... ⁓
John
you
Jason Ziolo
You're
Parker
you
Chris
you
Jason Ziolo
going
to.
AJ
It'll be great, but yeah, so it's gonna be exciting. It's gonna be stressful because obviously John and I are beyond fortunate to work with the bands that we get to work with but Okai is our little baby, our custody battle that we always talk about and it's gonna be fun having the time off to come back and just be extra motivated because we put in the work to write and to work remotely. But coming June, yeah, we've got a ton of plans to hit the ground running.
Parker
Hahaha
Chris
Thanks.
Jason Ziolo
So it's really a spring thing. Summer opens up for you guys to some degree. Can we expect the album by the end of the summer, you think?
John
That's right.
AJ
for that.
Jason Ziolo
I it. Can I buy a vinyl copy?
AJ
Do we want to disclose?
John
Yes.
AJ
I mean, how much do we want to pretell, John?
Jason Ziolo
You're not allowed
to tell. We'll just leave it at that. I want a vinyl copy. And just for the record, I'm a little bit bitter at John because when I went and saw Dance With The Dead, I paid extra money to buy a vinyl copy with the band signing it. And then I realized I paid for John's signature, and that just didn't feel right.
AJ
Hahahaha
John
I'm
is worth it.
Jason Ziolo
I
actually lent that album to a friend of mine this week because he likes this kind of more, he likes the more electronic stuff and I'm more the rock side. I'm like, try this, this is kind of in the middle. And I texted him before this, what he thought of the record. And he's like, this stuff slams. It's cool, it's really cool. And I'm looking forward to seeing it.
AJ
you
Jason Ziolo
Hell yeah. Cool guys. Well, this is probably a pretty organic place to wrap it up. Is there anything else we want to discuss before we disband here?
Parker
I just want to say you guys are both doing incredible stuff. Okai is awesome. AJ, first time I met you was at a Chicago Cubs game and we ended up at a random bar and we probably argued about music for, I don't know, an hour and a half. And it ended with us outside on the street doing metal screams on the streets of Chicago with each other. And I was like, hell yeah, let's go. Let's see where this kid goes.
AJ
Yup.
Parker
Man, I'm thoroughly impressed with where you've gone, And John, you're an incredible producer and musician, and it's awesome what you guys are doing.
Jason Ziolo
And that's kind of bullshit.
AJ
Thank you.
Thanks so much, man. Really appreciate you,
John
I that.
Jason Ziolo
If I can brag,
I paid for your tickets for that Cubs game because it was a company. And I'm still going, god, what did I do? So I think I get full credit, right? I did this. Not at all. You guys did this through hard work, and you're killing it. So keep doing it, man. I'm so excited to see where you guys end up. And I'm excited to come on to go and see you guys live. JT, I'm coming to see you.
AJ
That was so much fun. That was so much fun.
Parker
We do.
AJ
Yes, yes.
John
There you
Guess what's the lie?
AJ
Thank you, man.
Parker
Absolutely.
Jason Ziolo
AJ, I told you I really want to come out for like a week with you and follow you around. I got the OK from the wife. And my vacation in June just got canceled. So now I really have no excuse not to go. So we're going to have to.
AJ
Alright.
Nice man.
Yeah.
John
Well, here's the craziest
thing. AJ's first show, I believe May 9th, is Welcome to Rockville in Daytona Beach. And it just so happens that Dance with the Dead will be in Orlando about an hour away on the same day. And because I'm in a tour bus, we should be showing up to the venues super early, like 9 a.m. So I'm going to try to see if I can get some sort of guest pass or something. I'm going to shoot out to the...
Jason Ziolo
Yeah.
John
to the show and hopefully see AJ set side stage. I mean, I'm gonna try my best to do that.
AJ
That would be...
Dude.
Jason Ziolo
So
I got a really good friend in Tampa who's not too far from there. And I was flirting with the idea of it's not so much of a surprise now of surprising you and going out. So John, we're going to have to talk.
AJ
Dude. Dude.
Dude, that's crazy. That'd be awesome.
Jason Ziolo
I'm really excited for both you guys and Okaya. It's good day to be alive, man. You guys are going to do great things.
AJ
Thank you, Jason. We really appreciate you. Love what you're building here, a lot. And I know this podcast has a lot of potential, too. You guys are all awesome. And yeah, there's Reed. There's a lot of people that aren't in right now, but all great people. And you guys rock. So thanks so much for having us.
John
Thank you guys for your time.
Jason Ziolo
Of man, we got your back till the end, both of you guys. You're part of the crew. ⁓
Parker
Absolutely, 100%.
AJ
Thanks, man.
Jason Ziolo
So good luck and go kick ass. We're going to wrap up the podcast. Okaya, thanks for joining us. Chris and Parker, thanks for making it out. Next episode, think we are talking with one of Dave's buddies going to come on. And he says he's my doppelganger, so that'll be fun. We'll have to see who's better looking. Until next time, guys.
Thank you so much. We'll see you on the floor. Be good to each other.
John
Take care. Thank you.
AJ
Thank you guys,
appreciate it. Thanks.
Parker
Good luck.
Jason Ziolo
All right, guys, that was it. We lost everyone already. ⁓ there they go. All ⁓ right, Parker, I'll see you later. Thank you very much. Bye.
Parker
haha
Alright, later.
Bye.